. >> two words, michelle obama. she really motivated our base. to make our people how tough it is going to be. in the spring, when you kept going longer and longer, our people were saying, contributors say wake us up when this guy has a chance to beat us. >> what did you do on the debate nights, that these were national conversations on politics. on one side what were you trying to to do? >> we watched closely and they were good opportunities to kind of enter into the commentary and share, you know, our pokes and jabs underneath. it was also a chance for us to see how the message was unfolding. there were things said in the debates that we kept good notes on. we brought it up later in the campaign. >> you were quoted at this before about the issue of immigration and going after rick perry. do you still stand by what you said when you said if -- >> he flip flops. >> no, you overreacted to perry. >> look, when your party is -- to win your party's nomination you have to go out and take it. at that moment in time, during the early stages of the prima